Hotweb.waphall.com Chief Olabode Ibiyinka George, a former National Vice-Chairman of the People’s Democratic Party (PDP), South-West, is a member of the Committee on Politics and Governance at the ongoing National Conference in Abuja. In this interview, he speaks on why the conference committee is disposed to stripping the president and governors of immunity from prosecution while in office. Excerpts:
Bode George
There were discordant tunes on whether the National Conference would eventually hold when the idea was mooted, but now it is here. Do you think there was justification for the controversy?
People didn’t think it would fly. But we are all wiser and much calmer. And I believe this time, we are genuinely and honestly addressing ourselves. We’ve had a few experiences; in 1946, the constitutional conference was handled by the British. The one in 1954 was also handed by the British. The subsequent ones were handled by the military and I believe that we are much wiser than before.
I don’t agree with those who say we don’t have a Constitution because the one that is operating came from the military and not the people. At least we have a Constitution. If we are going to make amendments or suggestions or talk as Nigerians, I am enjoying it. I have listened to a lot of comments from so many people. But the point is that people now know that there can’t be winner takes all.
As brothers and sisters, there should be no fixation, no preconceived ideas. The debate is very robust now, genuine and honest and, with the experiences we had in the past, everybody realizes the indivisibility of this country. We are talking seriously as brothers. It gladdens my mind and I am happy to be part of this.
The first few days of the conference appeared like the delegates would have said “to your tents o Israel…”
It was a turbulent period. The first day when the speech of Mr. President was being discussed, people were saying 75 percent, consensus, others came up with two third majority; that’s the situation everywhere in the world.
I think it was going to tear the conference apart; people were all entrenched in their very deep trenches, ready to shoot. But we later realized it is better to jaw-jaw than to war-war. A professor of mathematics from the North came up with the idea that we should adopt a mid course and that sent a lot of signal into those who came with fixed ideas that, in this scenario, you can’t win it all.
You must shift from your position in the interest of the future of the children of this country. And since that was settled, it became clear to everybody that this is the first time we are having a serious, honest national discourse. From that time, people try to achieve consensus. I don’t think we have even gotten to the point where we say, ‘let’s go into division’. We would convince ourselves after robust, passionate debate.
People talk about the passion from their local areas and others become reasonable and say, ‘Ok, on this note, we will able to convince our people. You have shifted a bit, we will also shift a bit’. That is the spirit we have been trying to imbibe since 1914.
Many issues have continued to come up from the committees. Do you see the conference agreeing to of all that?
On our side, we looked at Section 308 of the Constitution on immunity clause that guarantees that anybody in office, if he has a case before, once he gets into office, cannot be prosecuted for criminal and civil cases. The debate was quite interesting. It was robust. People went into memory lane. People looked at the environment because we have experiences of the nuisance that we have witnessed.
People have become weary to say, ‘listen, why should Mr. A be a different Nigerian before the law?’ Human rights imply that everybody is equal before the law and once you come to us to ask us to vote for you, you are telling us ‘trust me to manage the resources of this country for our benefit’. If that is the case, you cannot say you are now above the law; anybody who is coming to equity must come with clean hands. Some people said to avoid frivolous cases, let us differentiate between criminal offences and civil cases. We said no.
We were all convinced. We didn’t go into division. At the end, the memo that was presented was to say, ‘Ok, let’s just expunge the criminal part of it, if you commit a criminal offence. Whether you are the president or a governor, you should be charged. We even said there should criminal libel in own statute like they do in America. But at the end of the debate, even those who had written copiously on the issue of retaining that particular clause yielded. They were convinced by better argument and that is the spirit.
What we are saying is let us have a society where we would discuss and debate. Let the better position be. Even if you have issues that you think that on your tribal basis could be affecting you, explain the pains to other Nigerians and we will support you; that is the essence of democracy;
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